On Bootstrap (synergydatasystems.github.io)
almost 8 years ago from KQ Dreger, Design at Patriot Software
almost 8 years ago from KQ Dreger, Design at Patriot Software
This is, and has always been, the whole point of Bootstrap. Providing a pre-packaged set of UI elements so you can build internal tools quickly.
I'm perplexed at the ongoing discussion about using Bootstrap for your user-facing UI. It wasn't made for that purpose. Sure, you can use it -- but that's not what it's for.
2 simple paragraphs that don't provide much insight or detail make it to #1 on DN? #yikes
This is like saying you're a bad designer for not designing a unique typeface for every product. Bootstrap is highly customizable.
Agreed. Bootstrap is our go-to framework for nearly every website and application we roll out. We are a small firm who creates and supports a lot of different applications for a lot of different businesses, and the maintainability aspect of juggling all of these projects is much more manageable with them all using a standardized and proven multibrowser framework.
As Erik points out, Bootstrap is highly customizable if you know how to use it properly. I have had zero issues converting any complicated design into the Bootstrap paradigm. Even our backend team can get some features structurally mocked up before a front-end dev massages it into the approved design. Some projects call for me to write custom mixins and whatnot, and they integrate like a champ.
Then, with projects like uncss (https://github.com/giakki/uncss) and deadweight (https://github.com/aanand/deadweight), preprocessing rips out all the bloat you didn’t use, and autoprefixer normalizes browsers-specific concerns based on a certain project’s supported browsers.
No need to reinvent the wheel every single time when you're trying to build functional web applications for a fair price.
Hey Jason. Just a quick question I wonder. Could you tell me about your workflow? I mean, do you code entire HTML structure using standard bootstrap so you build skeleton first and then change all the parameters from variables.less etc or do you recreate your ui kit first and then start coding html?
Do you have any public projects which we can see? I'm asking many questions but I feel like reinventing the wheel for some projects because I'm creating modules very similar to bootstrap and thinking a new workflow similar to yours. Thanks.
I probably wouldn't put it out there for the public, but the Bootstrap admin theme for Drupal is the only one I've found that can make the Drupal admin less of a complete clusterfuck nightmare.
Everything about Drupal is a clusterfuck nightmare. I've seen div-ception that reminds me of table based layouts from 1999.
It's absolutely gross. My only explanation is that the Drupal core contributors when they were planning Drupal 7 had a really fucked up understanding of front-end best practices.
Drupal 8 is going to handle these things in a much better way. What's even better, however is that there's a big push in the Drupal community for decoupling the Drupal back end from the front end.
Just like all frameworks, it's an effective tool when used for exactly what you need to accomplish.
Bootstrap styleguides are really strong and visually oriented compared to some others frameworks, like foundation. In my opinion it aim at developers, not designers as they want to control every ui aspect of their products - even if you can do amazing customization with it if you rewrite every css rules and every states :'(
Rewriting every rule isn't necessary, you can make small changes to the SASS or LESS settings file that will make the app look very different looking from vanilla Bootstrap/Foundation.
What happens though is that a lot of places, particularly those with a strong Dev focus, elect not to invest time doing so.
You can build highly customized and well designed sites with bootstrap, it just requires effort (arguably less then starting from scratch).
I've started using bootstrap for the grid lately. I've had friends recommend me Skeleton but I haven't given it a go yet.
Skeleton is great as a starting point with just a basic (but awesome) grid to work with. Personally one of my favorite micro frameworks out there.
If you're using BS just for the grid, it's overkill big time. If you're going to use a lot of the components, that's a different story.
But you can download the grid only css if I'm correct. Don't see why that would be overkill, comparing it to Skeleton or Neat
Of course. I immediately assumed that he was speaking of the entire package. My bad.
I like to use Skeleton and recommend it
Looking to convert PSD to a Drupal theme using bootstrap here is the link you can get service: http://www.developmenticon.com/custom-drupal-themes
What bootstrap is, is clean modularized components that prevents you getting css selector bloat and encourages quick component re-use.
Whilst, even themed for your brand, it might be too much css to use for a project, it has these principles which makes life easy for developers. What creates the even worse kind of css bloat and maintenance nightmares are just cutting up comps and writing css straight from a design.
So instead of everyone saying "don't use bootstrap", instead follow why bootstrap is so appealing and, as a design team, make your own modularized css framework for your brand or product.
This idea from Dale Sand goes back a few years: https://speakerdeck.com/anotheruiguy/module-design-ui-dev-patterns
And there is a tool to help: https://github.com/Toadstool-Stipe/toadstool
It's a great tool for a particular set of jobs.
I tried it out on a recent project as a basis but I felt I spent more time trying to un-bootstrap certain parts than doing the custom design required.
However, our senior dev used it to knock out a couple of internal dashboards for projects in no time - for this, it was perfect.
Internal project though, you can't sell a Bootstrap themed app to paying users.
You really can.
I should have said shouldn't. You can and many do.
can you elaborate on the negatives from a user perspective?
I wonder why too. I saw many websites built on bootstrap which doesn't feel like "bootstrap".
I'm ok with you concerning brand website, but for web applications, 90% of users will not make the difference between a flat UI using Bootstrap and a flat UI hand coded. They will just see that you can do the job faster and that the price is cheaper.
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