15 comments

  • Some GuySome Guy, over 8 years ago

    I avoid any minority/politically based organizations, groups, etc. If anything a profession should be about your work, good collaboration with others, and impact on a industry scale. I don't see how putting a cultural label on my work with a victim story will help me or others. I vehemently believe the best way to being a great minority/cultural whatever is to do exceptional work that sets the bar higher for everyone, not just your group.

    20 points
    • Maurice CherryMaurice Cherry, over 8 years ago

      Thanks for joining just to leave this comment.

      7 points
    • Conlin "Wuz" DurbinConlin "Wuz" Durbin, over 8 years ago

      This is essentially what is considered the color-blind argument, which at face level makes a lot of sense. Let's just treat everybody the same and then there wouldn't be any problem. The issue with that though is that in a society/group where there has been some sort of segregation or bias, un less something is actively done to change that bias, it will remain on its own. It's a pretty pervasive effect, and it can be seen in sociological studies like this one. As you can see on that article, when all else is equal, black applicants with no criminal record, were called back 3% less often than white applicants with a record. There are many other stats like that, but the evidence all shows that society doesn't change unless we acknowledge these kinds of things.

      If your work, good collaboration with others, and impact on an industry scale could all be taken equally across races, genders, sexualities, etc then you would be absolutely correct. Unfortunately this is not the case, and its going to take a lot of work for it to become the status quo.

      24 points
    • Alexander PierceAlexander Pierce, over 8 years ago (edited over 8 years ago )

      From an initial reaction, I find this specific comment a bit offensive (Speaking to @ Some Guy). Connecting your profession and your racial background isn't some ploy to get attention or get pity for getting the short stick in society. And specifically to our industry, there's a long history of connecting politics/discussions about race & privilege with art and design.

      As far as joining minority groups, let's use me as an example. I'm Black, I admit. I work in an industry that is overwhelmingly white dominated. I'm used to usually being the only Black creative at an agency. I'll agree that I've learned that "being a victim" does not help my career, or representation in my field of work. (Though I would argue that generally speaking my behaviour, professionalism and skill is sometimes held to a higher standard because of preconceived notions based on the color of my skin, cue the violin though, right?) But anyway, yes you should be darn good at your job, regardless of where you come from.

      But it's not about leaning on my race to get ahead or whatever your comments imply. Joining these groups is about showing that there are Black designers, art directors, developers (or whichever minority you belong to) out there. And while it can be tough, it is possible to have a career in a field that seems not well represented with people that look like you. Diversity is a really big problem in this industry, and I've seen it first hand. I was one of a handful of black design students in my graduating class, and through the years working at various agencies and speaking with colleagues, this lack of diversity hasn't necessarily gotten worse, but it for sure hasn't gotten all that better.

      No one's looking for a pity party with these groups, just a little support & hope in knowing you're not alone, and hopefully inspiring others to follow their passions. I understand your perspective, and may even partially agree with some parts, but that's just how I feel on the subject, and have to respectfully disagree on the overall sentiment.

      I'm writing this at like 12:30 in morning, so apologies for the long reply or unedited quality of this post.

      10 points
    • Ale MuñozAle Muñoz, over 8 years ago

      Quote:

      Imagine a scale tipped fully one way: the two sides cannot be made equal by continually adding equal weight to both.

      Did that ring a bell? Go read http://equal.li

      6 points
    • Adam SezlerAdam Sezler, over 8 years ago

      Yes great point

      1 point
  • Marcus H, over 8 years ago

    I'm 1/4 black, 1/4 white & 1/2 Brown (Caribbean, Irish & Indian), do I count?

    3 points
    • Some GuySome Guy, over 8 years ago

      Sometimes it depends with these organizations. It's up to the group to determine your "blackness".

      2 points
      • Conlin "Wuz" DurbinConlin "Wuz" Durbin, over 8 years ago

        This is actually a really fascinating thing to study in Sociology. Race is 100% a social construct, and different societies have different definitions of what constitutes a race.

        5 points
  • John HowardJohn Howard, over 8 years ago

    I don't know if anyone else feels like this, and it could be incredibly offensive. Know that I don't mean it like that in the slightest. First, the 'colorblind' argument is definitely true. The out of sight out of mind thing is true in a bunch of arguments and I'll be honest I choose to ignore a lot of 'pervasive' arguments just because I don't want to deal with them.

    Something that makes me want to ignore (and I'm sure this isn't the point that you are trying to make) is that I am lumped in with the white-trash, redneck, racist, offensive people when I hear these arguments. I can yell from the top of a mountain that I'm not racist but that will do no good. Because of feeling (again, just a feeling) I'm constantly lumped in with this kind of thinking it just makes me want to even less fight for the equality that you so much deserve.

    Again, you deserve it and I wish I was more attuned to that vein of thinking. Just recently I had a baby boy and now I truly get what it's like to be a father (learning every day)... before that, you could say I was 'blind' to the struggle of being a father. I know it's not a perfect comparison, but I understand that sometimes we just don't know the struggles people go through until we go through it ourselves.

    So make us aware of the struggle, but don't take it offensive if we aren't as passionate about it as you are. Should we be? Maybe, maybe not. Sometimes it just takes us seeing the struggle first hand to really grasp it. Maybe that will never happen, until then let's do what we can to not judge each other and in-turn encourage each other down a path of doing our absolute best (as some guy said) as individuals regardless of race, beliefs, and/or upbringing.

    0 points
  • Alexander PierceAlexander Pierce, over 8 years ago

    Maurice, have you seen the article on fastcodesign arguing for the use of comic sans on the shirt (I know the article you posted about more than just one piece of work). I thought the article was a pretty interesting piece in defending the use of the typeface from an art-direction perspective:

    http://www.fastcodesign.com/3039705/why-comic-sans-works-so-well-on-the-i-cant-breathe-shirts

    I've yet to decide whether I agree completely or not, but it does make an interesting argument nonetheless in this specific instance.

    Thoughts? (also, nice running into you again dude on another website)

    0 points
    • Maurice CherryMaurice Cherry, over 8 years ago

      Hey Alex! Good to see you again man. :-)

      I did see the FastCo Design piece, and I might be one of the few designers that doesn't care that the message is set in Comic Sans. I think the fact that the message is out there and being amplified by people who have these huge platforms is excellent for increasing awareness.

      Besides, the font choice could be worse. It could be Curlz.

      0 points